How Bethesda Butchered Fallout 3
Written by Puff   
Tuesday, 03 June 2008 11:29

Fallout 3 should not be considered part of the series (don't give me the 'crying fanboy' comment). Of course it has the same name and features the classic PIPboy, but the title is completely superficial since the gameplay took a major turn off course.


Fallout 3 butcheredThe key reason it should be renamed is when you drastically change the rules and gameplay, you have ultimately changed the game. If Tetris was changed into a FPS, is it still Tetris or would you call it something else? GAMEPLAY IS INTEGRAL TO A GAME.  So when Bethesda changes the Fallout gameplay while keeping the name, of course I'm going to say “Bethesda butchered the series.” It doesn't resemble the rest of the series at all. Any pissed Fallout fan has the right to say so.


I'm sure it'll still be an amazing game, I won't argue a good game, but the game is truly not part of the Fallout series but the mutated love-child of Oblivion's gameplay and Fallout's storyline. So who can complain about such an awesome combination? No one...unless it teases us with the title “Fallout 3.”


Carrying the title “Fallout 3” makes it an offensive grotesque of the original series. The choice of changing the game to a jumbled up FP/TP-RPG/Shooter without changing the name was a marketing move with no concern for the originality of the series. When Interplay was forced to sell the game because of declaring bankruptcy (thanks for the correction), Bethesda bought the chance to capitalize on the name with no regards for the actual game.


Foremost is the issue of Bethesda's choice to remove of the isometric view which is pivotal to the originality of the narrative and gameplay.  The isometric narrative has the player guiding the PC through the uncharted wastelands.  This allowed the player to take a more objective view which was the root its dark comedic undertones (so prevelent they're probably overtones).  Bethesda's decision to toss aside the isometric view reduced the title to an almost unrecognizable shred of its former self, sharing more in common with BioShock and Half-Life. Bethesda also said they were going to take out the self-referential jokes to make the world seem more “real.” Here's a tip – we know its not real. I didn't expect them to do as good of a job with the jokes anyhow, but don't justify altering key parts of the game for misguided reasons.


In a weak attempt to connect the game to the series Bethesda kept features like the PIPboy, reoccurring NPCs and the SPECIAL stat-system , but it doesn't make the world right again. They're just remnants of the former games, mere foot notes referencing to the creativity of Black Isle's Fallout series. Does every RPG have to sellout to some hybrid form including FPS?


My main suggestion: Change the title of the game!

At least when Microsoft developed Halo Wars, a Halo RTS, they didn't call it Halo 4.   It' because they realized it's a different game that still uses the Halo world - Same goes for Fallout 3.   Instead of FO3 they should call it “Fallout V.A.T.S.” (the added 'Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System) or Brotherhood of Steel 2.  Don't ruin a great series by mixing genres and titles.


I am extremely let down by this mutated release of Fallout 3. I was really anticipating the next Fallout after the lack of sand-boxing in Fallout Tactics. It's hard to see your favorite game turned into such a blatant sellout. I hope somehow game companies learn from this mistake, because on the unlikely chance Diablo 3 is released as a FPS/TPS...I'll have a stroke


PS- Obviously I'm still buying the game, but mostly because I love Oblivion (and that's a sad reality for a Fallout fans).


Checkout the follow-up article by Trick

Tags: Fallout 3  Bethesda  
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written by BigBallsBarry , June 04, 2008
As a Fallout fan your entitled to your opinion I guess, but as a Fallout fan myself, I think this will be a great Fallout game. Sure the system is going to be changed, but Im sure it will be the same gameplay at heart. If you ask me it just adds more realism to it. Maybe you should wait till you play the game before you start whining about how they "butchered" it.smilies/angry.gif
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written by Puff , June 04, 2008
There was no intended "realism" in the first place. It's like drawing the Simpsons as real characters. The first 2 Fallouts were dark parodies, not player survivor stories (yes, changing that does change the purpose of the game).

I totally accept and will enjoy Bethesda's game, I'm not complaining about that. But with all the changes they made, why can't they just give the game a different title? Would you still call it the Mona Lisa if Picasso redrew all her features in different places? OF course it would still be a famous painting because an amazing artist drew it, but it wouldn't be called the Mona Lisa I assure you.
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written by Vision , June 04, 2008
If they repainted the picture from Mona Lisa's point of view they might still call it Mona Lisa 2... but hey, what do I know.
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written by What Ever , June 04, 2008
I kinda agree fallout 3 is not what i would call it but I also think this will rock the first 2!
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written by ... , June 04, 2008
Yes you are entitled to your opinion. But here's mine, fuck you. smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by bojackme , June 04, 2008
As an avid fan of the first two fallouts, I would say that although fallout 2 was a fantastic game, it did not feel like a full sequel to me. It felt like a wonderful extension of the first fallout. While I can't pass judgment on Bethesda's take on the franchise, it seems like they are evolving and complementing the previous games, something that is much needed for a game like fallout to receive the sequel it so deserves. I can't wait for Fallout 3.
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written by Gaming changes over time. , June 04, 2008
I see your point, but dude, be real, Fallout 2 come out 10 years ago. Gaming evolves and changes are made between games. Sometimes even drastic changes, and in many cases, those end up as the most rewarding. Resident Evil 4 for example. It was completely different than any other RE in both gameplay and theme, however, it still felt like RE; it felt like a logical progression for the series. Progressive evolution in gameplay helps keep series fresh, interesting and fun in different ways as opposed to falling back on a tried and true gameplay that is over a decade and is being further and further outgrown by the industry. The new Fallout will have enough core elements and themes of the priors to make it fit in the series and in the end will definitely feel like Fallout. Trust me. Don't be afraid of change. And if you are, well...go replay the first two.
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written by D man , June 04, 2008
Have you actually played it???
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written by Logic , June 04, 2008
I'm glade they're improving things for the times, and doing things we could only dream about at the time of the other titles.
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written by Jerry , June 04, 2008
I dunno, I don't see the changes they're making as really that bad. Going from an isometric camera angle to a third-person or first-person 3D camera is going to make the experience more immersive and in-depth feeling. Rather than just arranging a bunch of sprites or cardboard cutouts on the screen, you're gonna feel like you're really in there, soaking up the radiation and atmosphere of the Fallout world (assuming Bethesda manages to keep the atmosphere intact).

Your other points about the dark humor and breaking-of-the-fourth-wall instances of Fallout 1 and 2 are well-taken, but nobody knows how well Fallout 3 recaptures this same "post-apocalyptic irony" brand of mood, tone, and feel (nor will we know until the game comes out). Don't you think it's a little premature to judge what the overall sort of humor and vision Fallout 3 will have at this point in time.
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written by Puff , June 04, 2008
Why does everyone think isometric is outdated? It's still used in DS games, Diablo, and Starcraft...notice how two of those are Blizzard games. Yes it take a little bit of creativity to make an isometric, but its turns out a hell of a lot better than a crappy made "beautiful" 3d game that focused more on graphics than gameplay.
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written by Hellhound , June 04, 2008
What the hell man? I can't manage to see how the perspective would change the atmosphere of the game, considering that you are in a FP perspective you feel much more immersion in the game, in fact one of the best things that ever happened to RPG was to include a FPP. You have to understand what type of RPG is this, in this case its mainly developed around the main character which is you! If you would be saying this about tactics, then I understand, because tactics is more RTS oriented, but this is not the case.
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written by half amazing , June 04, 2008
puff...you are one of the reasons publishers like EA thrive by putting out the same derivative shit sequel after sequel. Change is good and sometimes needed.
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written by Ben , June 04, 2008
You're looking at this the wrong way. The game is definitely a part of the Fallout series. Look at Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Both Metroid games but changed dramatically from a side scroller to a FPS. Bethesda is making the gameplay more entertaining while keeping the Fallout feel.
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written by Icematrix , June 04, 2008
no more fps aka crappy made "beautiful" 3d games pls... puff got a point there.
chill out he didnt say that it wont be a wonderful game but it would be nice to see a n "original" fallout in nextgen version... smilies/smiley.gif
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written by cazsim83 , June 04, 2008
Hey, just wanted to let you know I posted a link over at a Fallout fansite - duckandcover.cx - and quite a few of our members sound very similar to what you are saying here. Thanks for a great article!
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written by Own , June 04, 2008
This game is going to rock!

http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-6vmj-71-bm-49-en-84-k-40-extended.html
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written by Hamad , June 04, 2008
Exactly my point, and fallout has never been about realistic graphics and the technology wow factor. So no, Isometric isn't outdated, turn-based isn't outdated.

Bethesda should have renamed the title, like Fallout adventures or something, they really are pissing the fans of the series.
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written by Charles , June 04, 2008
Interesting ideas. There's a lot of hostility to someone who's just stating their opinion. Anyway, I've never played the other Fallout games but it seems like I should to get a grasp on what everyone's gripe with Bethesda is about. Everyone should just hold their judgment until the game actually comes out and stop jumping the gun.

I agree with the isometric view point, if and when Diablo 3 comes out(hopefully) and it doesn't have something similar to an isometric feel then it would lose a lot of its charm.
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written by LC , June 04, 2008
Black Isle; In 1998, several key members responsible for the division's first title, Fallout, left Interplay to form Troika Games after they "were unable to come to an agreement with Interplay as to how [their] next team should be structured".[4] On December 8, 2003, in the midst of serious financial difficulties, Interplay laid off the entire Black Isle Studios staff.

"When Interplay was forced to sell the game because of Black Isle's bankruptcy"

I think your statement is a bit off, your links suggest that black isles had internal struggles that saw key members leave and interplay lays the rest off because of there (interplays) financial situation in December of 2003, interplay files bankruptcy in June of 2005. I think your article should be corrected.
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written by BevoBoy , June 04, 2008
I must completely agree with Puff here. If you change the game so much, then the only reason you would keep the name would be for brand recognition. A great example would be Far Cry 2. AFAIK, Crysis is the true sequel to Far Cry, they only reason they are using the name Far Cry 2 is because they own the rights to the name and want more brand recognition = more sales. I'm not blaming them really because It's the right business decision. Or hell, look at the Mechwarrior franchise after Mercenaries.
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written by Edward_R_Murrow , June 04, 2008
Hmmm..it's nice to actually see someone speak out against it who isn't on Bethesda's "Axis of Evil" (namely Codex/DaC/NMA). Especially I like how even though you say you may enjoy the game, you won't really enjoy it as a Fallout game, which is a stark contrast to all the media big wigs who are suddenly huge Fallout fans and who are always focused on shutting down the critics who say this won't be a good sequel, not that it won't be a decent game.
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written by fenix , June 04, 2008
Oh wow, they're changing gameplay, they're also changing the graphics, is that a problem too? I would hope the gameplay has changed, when did the last one come out, over a decade ago? The interplay that developed the original fallout titles doesn't exist anymore, and besides, brand names get switched from developers all the time. As a fallout fan you should be happy to see the name fall into s developer's hand as skilled and as committed to making an accurate fallout extension as bethesda, I know I am. I loved the original two fallouts, and I can't wait to see how bethesda has taken the series to new heights. I would be willing to wager that this new entry will be the best of the series.
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written by albrnick , June 04, 2008
Wait, wait. The big change is the change of perspective/camera angle?! A fallout game has to be done with an "isometric view" to be considered fallout? You are crazy.
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written by vel hung , June 04, 2008
Why is it that every time someone posts that they don't like something about the way Beth's doing Fallout 3 fanboy seizures ensue? Puff even said he's sure it'll still be an amazing game. Geez.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9573/fo3wsbgfst3ni3.gif
smilies/tongue.gif
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written by pndragon26 , June 04, 2008
Change is great, I agree with that. Especially when it is an evolution. But keep in mind DOOM was also in FP... and not much has really changed since then.
I loved BF2, Oblivion, COD4, Dues Ex (first one) and a whole bunch of other FPSers — both modern and old... I just see a day when ALL games will be FP or not made. That is not good change. Variety is important. It keeps games creative. I fully expect if a Diablo 3 is made it will be in FP and I am sure many would complain if Startcraft was being done as a FP.
I will buy and most likely enjoy Fallout 3, but I think it will be merely a good game not a great game. I base this on what I have read on "both" sides of the fence.
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written by goffy59 , June 04, 2008
Bethesda did the same shit that happened to ET. Replaced guns with flashlights. Thats how pathetic it is. They need to change the name to Fallout: East Coast. Bethesda's Fallout 3 has nothing to AT all to do with the series. I'm more excited for a fan made Fallout then this bullshit. I guess gamers these days are so fucking stupid, they don't even like to read or figure out things for themselves. They want it all on a silver platter easily accessible. This is why games like Myst or Riven aren't around anymore. Because the gaming industry has basically turned into MTV.
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written by Pessimeister , June 04, 2008
War...war never changes.

Except that isometric is becoming first person,
Turn based is incongruously being mutated into a bastardised Real Time With Pause,
The dark and often subtle humour and irony is farcially being replaced by mere visceral spectacle and obvious, belly-laugh guffaws. (Fat-Man, Exploding Cars, mini-nukes, ghouls that heal themselves, flaming fucking swords.)

Oblivion with guns "in all the best ways" (sic) indeed.

Emphasis has been on the combat - with no real dialogue options on display in any of the previews as yet - begging the question as to why, since it was always a central element to Fallout. Without the causes and consequences created in dialogue options, could it ever be considered Fallout? I think not.

I agree - call it something else, don't try to hold a candle to one of the greatest rpgs of all time with a product that is philosophically, almost opposed to it in most aspects.

Good article. We need to question gaming media hype and the over zealous eye-candy obsession. Immersion does not = first person perspective.

/End Bitter Rant
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written by Sander , June 04, 2008
I like how half the people here are basically saying "feh, it's only gameplay".
Sorry, but that's the very basic feature of any game, it's the distinguishing feature of the medium. If you change the gameplay of a game, you have an entirely different sort of game.

Hence, Fallout 3 is going to be an entirely different type of game. Whether you will personally like this change or not is, in fact, completely seperate for whether it is appropriate for a full sequel to change its gameplay. You don't see Doom goin from an FPS to an RTS set on the moons of Mars, and when World of Warcraft was released it wasn't called Warcraft 4 either.

And no, Fallout's gameplay had nothing to do with it being 1997. Real-time and first-person games had existed for well over a decade by that time. In fact, Diablo, a thoroughly real-time game, was released early the same year, and obviously Doom had been around for a long time.
It was a conscious decision to take an isometric view and turn-based combat, simply because that fit best with what the creators wanted to do: present a game reminiscent of Pen & Paper games. Real-time combat would not fit the game, because it would decrease the importance of character skills and remove much of the tactical aspect.
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written by Wastelander , June 04, 2008
The first Fallouts weren't about realism at all. They were satire RPGs. One of my favorites, but I think Fallout 3 looks like its going to be great. There are certainly major differences between them, but differences that I can accept. Everyone's entitled to make up their own minds about it, to be sure, but I can be pretty sure that I'm going to get it and like it a lot.
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written by Puff , June 04, 2008
Wow, people who posted on the site seemed to read the article. Gosh, I'm surprised how many people are probably not reading the whole thing through
...oh wait, I'm not surprised at all...

The only good argument I read was from someone who asked "what about the GTA series?" Valid point, it changed from isometric to FPS and it retained "awesomeness." Still, Bethesda said it's stripping away more than the Isometric, they are removing all in-game self-references to make it seem "more real." That alone ruins 50% of the game original integrity. What is Fallout if its not a post-apocalyptic dark comedy?!

Still, I can't wait for the game to come out because...OBLIVION ROCKED! wait...what?


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written by Beth Out Fan Boy , June 04, 2008
Look, I am a big fanboy of fallout, I played both one and two and while I loved them, I can't help but feel this fallout 3 is the logical progression of the previous ones. I mean, they were annoying and you had to take turns and stuff, (men I really couldn't stand those games) but now we will finally be able to play the way the original designers intended it.

For example, when fallout 1 was made, there was no way to make games that were as actiony as today's. Every game was turn based, as the technology couldn't handle every npc moving at the same time. Pac-Man released a few years later was the first game to implement this kind of action and finally, after waiting some 35 years we will finally have an action game with fallout's characters.

Action, like all other features Bethesda is changing/adding is a sign of the evolution of gaming. In the days of old, games were usually innovative, different from each other and required some kind of skill to play. This was a real drag, because only nerds were playing games. But now the companies have seem the truth, they see all games much be alike 3d shooters with one or two features to differentiate each other.

In the future, games will be accessible to all, men and women, girls and boys, babies of all genders, monkeys trees and rocks will all be able to play together by just mashing the buttons on the controller.
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written by Professor Ogoid , June 04, 2008
Personally, I find it ironic that a lot of people who
A)didn't play FO/FO2
B)didn't like FO/FO2
C)don't really care about FO/FO2
seem to be the ones who are most anticipating this supposed *sequel*
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written by Neutered Dogmeat , June 04, 2008
I'm a huge fan of Fallout from way back. In fact Wasteland was one of my first CRPGs and Fallout still is one of my favorites. And I think Fallout 3 looks excellent!
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written by ProjectEva , June 04, 2008
Think of it this way... Not matter how bad they butcher the gameplay, change the feel, or modify the core elements of the game, It can't possibly be any worse than what they did to Shadowrun. :-
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written by ProjectEva , June 04, 2008
That's a generic "they" by the way. I know Bethesda didn't make Shadowrun.
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written by Short Round , June 04, 2008
I really don't agree with the assertion that Fallout 3 needs to change the name. I know there are people that aren't happy with it, but I find it disingenuous to suggest that they would really be any more happy with it, if it was given a spin-off name.

Fallout 3 is the game we are getting. Personally, I'm ok with it. Its not the fallout 3 I would have made if I was doing it. But, it is a Fallout 3 that I think looks like it will be a very good game. I loved the Fallouts...I also really enjoyed Oblivion. I like the games that Bethesda makes and they are one of the few Western RPG developers left in the world and certainly one of my favorites remaining.

If you are waiting for "Tim Cain's Fallout 3", well that's never going to happen. It doesn't matter if Bethesda bought the license and made this Fallout 3, or not. If that's the only Fallout 3 you can accept, then you aren't going to accept any Fallout 3 that ever had a realistic possibility of being made.

If you fall into that category, best to treat the series as if it died after Fallout 2. That's when the Black Isle team was done making any, released, Fallout game and that's when your chances of getting the Fallout 3 you wanted made died as well.

But there's absolutely no good that's going to come from pissing in other Fallout fans' cornflakes, either. Those of us that are satisfied and happy with Fallout 3 will be. Those that aren't, won't.

And the world will move on. You should to.
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written by TrendsOfCulture , June 04, 2008
Oh wow, they're changing gameplay, they're also changing the graphics, is that a problem too? I would hope the gameplay has changed, when did the last one come out, over a decade ago?


I would also hope for a change that actualy evolves the series in a good way. All i'm seeing now is heavy emphasis on graphics and silly, to tears, mini mushroom explosions. Where is the evolution here? They didn't improve the old gameplay elements, they just removed most of them. The wonderful ambient industrial works of Mark Morgan are also replaced and whit what? Epic themed orchestral music?

Where did the little details, the choices and consiquences, the complex quests, the great dialogue choices, the diversity of characters with which you can complete the game, the humor, the things that made you say - wow, that's really possible?!, the tactical combat, go? I certanly haven't seen any of it yet, maybe they are hiding their best features of the game and just serving us with the dull nuclear explosions in all these previews and screenshots? The most recent example of their work "Obliion" , at least, doesn't approve of this hypothesis...

I have no problem with great graphics and FPP view, but when this is the standout feature of a game that is supposed to be a sequel, to a game that was a total opposite of that, then i have a problem with it... "This is what we make best" excuse doesn't work here, if you are incompetant of doing something, you don't take the task.

As i see it, beth is only milking the fallout cow, because they are running low on new ideas for their TES series...
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written by Evin Dasph , June 04, 2008
I don't remember being able to use any tactics except who has a bigger gun and more armor in fallout. :-
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written by Dr. Aaron , June 04, 2008
Mario 64 is not Mario because they change the view!

Umm....
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written by J.R. , June 04, 2008
Oddly enough, I think the No One Lives Forever series is a relevant reference point. The second game lost some of the eccentric quirkiness that made the first so unique, but it was generally more polished and accessible, and kept at least some of the stealth and uniqueness. This kind of change I can stomach.

I expect Fallout 3 to be more of a "Contract JACK" though. It's a semi-sequel set between the NOLF games. Never heard of it? That's because it's terrible, mostly because it forsook all that made the NOLF games great. It had none of the charm of the first two. With a standard FPS protagonist and run-and-gun gameplay, it was just a mediocre version of any other FPS, set in a dumbed-down NOLF universe. And that was with the same developer! Fallout 3 has a stronger, more unique setting to build on, but that's all it's likely to retain from the originals, and that's not enough to qualify as "great." I'm sure Beth will even manage to squander Liam Neeson's abilities, just as they did Patrick Stewart's and Sean Bean's.

At least Monolith had the decency to not name their game NOLF 3.

Btw, immersion is important, but I'd rather it be broken with dark/4th wall humor a la Fallout, than asinine crap like mininukes and easily exploded nuclear cars.
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written by Frank , June 04, 2008
In my opinion, from what little I've seen and heard of the game (Fallout 3), a better title would be The Road Featuring Mutants, providing any of you read Cormac McCarthy, you'll know what I'm talking about. I'm sure the upcoming "Fallout" will be a decent game, though quite a stretch from the first two in regards to more than gameplay, they've reduced Super Mutants to mere generic enemies as well as a good number of crazed cannibalistic ghouls. I concur with the author, if they were simply to change the title of the game I think a fair number of us would be appreciative, though I'll probably just buy the fucking game anyways.
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written by Ralph P. , June 04, 2008
Thank you for your amazing article. It's a breath of fresh air when I read articles of people with integrity as Mr.Puff. I only wish more people would have the courage to tell the truth, about how this game is being developed.
And how the mass-media machine is portraying Bethesda, as the creator of a genuine sequel to one of the most beloved series of all time. I just wanna say that it's sad day when a series as unique is Fallout is being raped by greedy corporations just wanting to make a quick buck. Nothing is sacred anymore.

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written by Puff , June 04, 2008
How sad is it that everyone saying "it's the logical step" puts no emphasis on the artistic significance of the series?

What is the point of defending video games at all if you treat them like some technological progression? Look at Katamari Damacy, which progressed 'backwards' to cubism graphics yet is one of the most innovative games in years. It's about the intention, not the "logical evolution" That's just a BS way to say give us something to entertain us till the next game comes out. Excuse those of us who want video games to have depth and cultural meaning.
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written by LC , June 05, 2008
your an idiot, black isle didn't have a bankruptcy, interplay did and they sold off properties to recoup losses. amateur journalist.
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written by baz , June 05, 2008
I don't think its necessary a logical step or not. Bethesda have taken the game where they feel it can best represent the Fallout story/mythology, and be engaging and entertaining, and make miiillions!
Far be it from me to comment on whether the game is good or not, NO-ONE on this site has experienced the gameplay of Fallout 3.

What I don't understand from the original article is why the huge deal about the name, just because Fallout 3 has moved in a different step? I can understand the attachment to the isometric gameplay of Fallout 1,2 & Tactics (not so much Tactics) and I have that attachment too, but is it really all that major that the name aligns itself as one of the series? I'm sure Bethesda's choice to use "Fallout 3" is very much a marketing move, because the previous games have such a loyal fanbase, but honestly can you blame them?
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written by GarfunkeL , June 05, 2008
Jesus Christ what a sickening amount of paid-off Bethsoft fanboys! What, you all have Peter Hine's limp dick in your mouth while commenting here?

Puff made just one mistake in his text and that was about Black Isle bankcruptcy.

All the other points are valid and truthful. Reading most of the comments made me sick.

We have a big gaming company here, willing to make a proper RPG-sequel to a decade-old franchise which has a legendary status and fanatical following.

Did they hear out old Black Isle guys? -No.
Did they hear out NMA's F3 wishlist? -No.
Did they just copy and "improve" their old engine? -Yes.
Did they just pull a bunch of excuses from their ass for justifying their using Oblivion engine in a totally different game? -YES BABY YES!

It's gonna be a crappy Bioshock-ripoff with shiny gfx. And metacritic will give it 99% or so. And two years from release, fans have released gazillion mods "fixing" the game since Bethsoft is incapable of doing that. Happened with Oblivion and F3 should really have been named Oblivion with Guns, as that's what it is.
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written by Gaston , June 05, 2008
Did somebody's Mummy not love them enough...?
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written by xplode , June 05, 2008
I have played Fallout and Fallout 2, and i have the feeling that the Fallout 3 will not be my kind of game. Some of you say, the games evolve trough the years - take a look at Starcraft and Starcraft II (this kind of evolution should be made to Fallout 3), the sequel has many improvements in graphics and gameplay but Blizzard stick to the model of the game which makes it addictive. We will have Obvilion in Fallout skin - so all of the Fallout (1&2) fans will be disapointed because this game will not be the fallout they love.

Bethesda take a look at Blizzard and learn, and you may succed one day (or maybe never)
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written by Evin Dasph , June 05, 2008
Bethesda take a look at Blizzard and learn, and you may succed one day(or maybe never)

You do realize that Bethesda is extremely successful and Blizzard has changed Star craft to be like Warcraft 3 in terms of camera movement. Also Bethesda doesn't need any of the fallout fan boys to be Extremely Successful in fallout 3.
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written by Puff , June 05, 2008
That's not the point of the post "Evin". Please read the arguments made people spouting off your pre-determined opinions.

It'll be an amazing game, but probably poorly made in terms of the original intentions of the Fallout narrative and milieu. Yes, original intentions matter. The game wouldn't even be an issue now if original intentions didn't matter, because the game would have flopped as a isometric game that just didn't have good graphics. Some games ended up like that...but not Fallout because the game was more than its graphics.
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written by Evin Dasph , June 05, 2008
The players actions affect the world.", "There is a sense of urgency," "It's open ended," "The player will have a goal," "The player has control of his actions," "Simple Interface," "Speech will be lip-synched with the animation," "A wide variety of weapons and actions," "Detailed character creation rules," "just enough GURPS material to make the GURPSers happy. The game comes first.""The Team is Motivated"Mega levels of violence.There is often no right solution.here will always be multiple solutions

These were the original intentions of the game the only one that has been broken was also broken by the first two GRUPS was used by none of the games.
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written by A.e , June 05, 2008
First of all let me say i agree with you. they should change the name.
Second, i find it hard to believe fallout fans whom i consider to be a mature crowd would write some of the responses you got.
I do hope the name issue will be resolved in some way and i am still hoping for a true sequel.
Cuz not only is Fallout 3 an fps but it has some elements and even some weapons in it which are clearly not fallout by nature.
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written by garren , June 07, 2008
"but now we will finally be able to play the way the original designers intended it."

Jesus Christ. Troll much?

Or are you really that ignorant smilies/cheesy.gif study before you post
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written by wow , June 07, 2008
ahahaha, are you kidding me?

these fanatical comments crack me up like nothing else. i think someone said this before, but let me rephrase it: bethesda will make the game as they see fit, as the franchise is theirs and nobody elses. you can whine all you want, and you won't change anything but the amount of bullshit already out on the internet.

can you not at least do the rest of us a favor and stay inside your bile infested fansite forums? out here people get annoyed when you rant about the perspective, the graphics or whatever other element of the game that doesn't suit your taste. it is not your game, it won't ever be. let it go, move on already, you've broken up with the girl and she won't come back and change to how you want it just for your sake when she's with someone else.



just kidding. you never had a girl.
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written by Uncanny Garlic , June 08, 2008
Evin, note that they said they wanted enough GURPS to make the GURPSers happy and they ended up SPECIAL, a RPG system that is similar to GURPS only made specifically for a setting. Are there still people who'd like to see GURPS make an appearence? Sure but they are all content with SPECIAL, the system that was created because SJG denied Black Isle the rights to use GURPS in their game.

Puff: Good article, I personally found Oblivion boring as hell but I think that you've nailed it on the head. Fallout 3 will be a good or even great game for most Oblivion and STALKER fans but because of this, fans of TRPGs and RPGs based on PnP, which is what primarily made up the Fallout playerbase, are being allienated. It's likely going to be a good game, just not a Fallout sequel, thus it should be labeled appropriately and honestly.
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written by BethOut FanBoy , June 08, 2008

Jesus Christ. Troll much?

Or are you really that ignorant smilies/cheesy.gif study before you post


Nah, it is you that are ignorant. The designers wanted to make a game just like doom, that came a few years before, but they douldn't because they lacked the technology (action games like doom weren't invented yet). So, while they wanted to make a 1st person shooter, they made an rpg by mistake. Now with bethesda, there will be no mistake this is a FPS.

To tell the truth, the designers were a bit incompetent too. They created Troika games after quiting Black Island, and tried three more times to make FPSes, but the first two attempts ended up in rpgs again! The third attempt even used Half Life 2's engine, and managed to get real time right. However, they managed to make an rpg out of it too! These guys really don't know how to make a FPS.

Disclaimer: The post you just read may contain trace amounts of sarcasm. Do not intake if allergic.
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written by Will , June 09, 2008
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written by A BLACK ISLE FAN , June 11, 2008
I know the fellas from Black Isle probably will never read this, but god bless you all. Urquhart, Avellone, Cain, Anderson, those guys are gods in our eyes. Fallout was an amazing game and an ever more amazing experience. No-one, not even fat-sucking, ill-managable bastards like Bethesda can EVER take that away from the gamers. As far as Im concerned, Fallout died when Black Isle did. Rest in Peace.
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written by ipvicus , June 11, 2008
While I'm all for the "God Bless Black Isle" sentiment, bashing Bethesda like this for scrapping the isometric gameplay is just ridiculously uncalled for. A top tier game developer would have to be smoking some serious crack to try and sell an isometric game in 2008. Furthermore, I'm not even sure I would want to play it. I loved Fallout, it was one of the first games I ever played... I still play it. That dosn't mean I want the same damn game with a new story rehashed and sold to me 10 years later. Get real.

I can't wait for Fallout 3, and more than that... I can't wait for the revitalization that it will bring the world of Fallout games in the future. Based on what I've seen, I'd be happy to buy Bethesda's work in the Fallout verse for years to come.
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written by bob , June 12, 2008
Damn Bethesda, they've taken a established concept and trying to improve/update for the next generations to enjoy.

On your basis we'd all be still riding around on penny-farthings and playing pong.

But hey, lets see how the game turns out before anybody gets on their high horse and it will still spark interest in the originals even if Bethesda's version is good or bad smilies/wink.gif


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written by Rainstorm , June 13, 2008
written by Evin Dasph on June 04, 2008

I don't remember being able to use any tactics except who has a bigger gun and more armor in fallout. smilies/undecided.gif


Then maybe you should've thought about way to do it tactically, aiming at legs to slow down tough enemies, shooting enemies attacking your weaker posse to make them attack you instead and so on.(there's quite a bit of tactic you can use during the combat)

Thanks for a nice read Puff, I agree wholeheartedly, except for liking Oblivion, I never played it after reading about the automatic levelling of enemies.(did play Morrowind though and it was pretty good for a couple of weeks, nothing I'll play again, but nothing I consider wasted cash either)

We're considered to "whine" as usual, ever heard of the concept of stating your mind, to criticize?
Yes, Beth owns the rights, yes, they can and will do the game the way they want, but that isn't what this is about and not what Puff has argued:
All Puff is trying to say that it's not a true sequel, hence it shouldn't have the number three at the end. (understanding that sentiment shouldn't be too hard a task IMHO)

FO: BoS got a different name, FO tactics got a different name because they were different games, why shouldn't Beth's Fallout, which isn't a true sequel, choose a different name too?

So, it's not a question about whether it's a good game or not, I'll hold my judgement on that, I seriously doubt I will enjoy it as much as I would if it had been called something else though.(just like I think that Postman is a good movie, but I would've liked it a lot more with another name since it bears little resemblance to the book)
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written by dawat , June 14, 2008
I remember when I learned Fallout 3 was going to be first-person-view (why couldn't they just use the wonderful isometric view with updated 3D graphics a la 'Van Buren' is beyond my lowly-subhuman comprehension). Immediately after that I found out it wouldn't even be turn-based, I mean, c'mon boys its a frikkin' RPG for gods sake! Yet after it all sunk down I didn't feel they had "butchered" the game.

I think Fallout was great because of its retrofuturistic setting, unique atmosphere, unforgettable NPCs and just the right amount of weirdness/jokes; all that tied together by the wonderful SPECIAL system. As far as I know Bethesda's guys are being loyal to all that. The only one of those aspects that has me worried is the "unforgettable NPCs" bit (what's this I hear about only one NPC in the party at a time?? not to mention oblivions "NPCs"). anyway what I'm saying here is that even if they changed the gameplay, the core elements which made Fallout are all still there, so perhaps they are entitled to calling it Fallout 3.

Besides, it won't be long after the game is released that we'll have plenty of MODs restoring the original fallout feel in case bethesda's boys frak it up real good.
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written by cazsim83 , June 14, 2008
well, since people are still posting I'll just say this: Puff, keep up the good journalism, take the valid criticism (like researching about Black Isle etc) and learn from it. Keep making great articles, and keep hoping that Bethesda will hear us fans out, even this close to a release date, because a lot of it does not look good.

p.s. - Beth Out Fan Boy is a raging ass-pumping faggot, who's not funny, probably not handsome, and definitely was the product of incest, which it now perpetuates with it's incest-produced brother as well.
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written by Puff , June 19, 2008
Thanks caz,

I'd like to think I put some thought into this...
When major changes are made to games, I'd like to think people will speak up about it, even if it's not going to sway the designer to stop production, at least the gaming community will know who is full of BS and who isn't. Cinema and literature have the same standards, so why are so many gamers happy to be just lazy pushovers or so easily amused?
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written by PhxGunner , June 27, 2008
Who the freak cares anyways? PC games suck and they are a waste of money since you always need to upgrade your computer with SLI video cards. I played Fallout 2 before and it was pretty boring. you had to keep talking to ppl about random quests that no one cares about. If you want to play REAL games, get an xbox360 and Gears of War 2. I swear it you will never want to play a PC game again
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written by Kamakaze , June 27, 2008
Honestly, the last good game they made was Baldurs Gate 2. Everything after that has been mediocre.
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written by jonathan zungre , July 29, 2008
I'm a huge ninja gaiden fan from the 80's and when team ninja brought that from the 2d to the 3d, it was truely fantastic.

i got to play fallout 3 at E3 and like Ninja gaiden, mario galaxy, Ocarina of Time and many other games that implemented drastic changes in gameplay, it is fantastic.

The guys at bethesda really do love the original franchise and have kept fallout feeling like fallout.
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written by i hate u , August 19, 2008
do u have sand in your vagina
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written by i hate u , August 19, 2008
although that was some good editing for that picture
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written by LunaticGunstar , October 19, 2008
I know this is old, and probably irrelevant by now, but when the game drops and is awesome (which it will be), and it DOES feel like a sequel, would you have the guts to change your mind? Hypothetical question, with no disrespect intended.
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written by Puff , October 22, 2008
Of course I will. I know Bethesda has the capability of making a good game. I've recently been enjoying the Oblivion MOD community...but if MODing Oblivion has taught me anything it's that Bethesda made a buggy game with few creative quirks and even less interesting plot. In other words, a game that fell short of its potential.

I am not suggesting that the graphics and gameplay weren't capable of a great game...that's why so many people have gone into MODing Oblivion. It's just that the vanilla Oblivion did not meet expectations of a great game (which the Fallout namesake deserves).

In closing, if Bethesda makes a Fallout that deserves praise, I'll be willing to admit I'm wrong. But if they fall short in the way they did with Oblivion (which is a good game, but has so many faults) I'll be there to laugh at how such I was that they half-ass everything but graphics...
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written by Noturnus , October 29, 2008
I am afraid in the future there will be only real time, first person games. Does everything
must be equal?

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written by Puff sucks , October 30, 2008
Dude, the game came out.. I'm a fan of the first two..
and it blew them away!
Not only did they manage to keep what made Fallout fun in the first place, but took it to a whole new level of excitement! If you have played the game, and still think it sucks, then you're just a person who can't accept change! Again, amazing game! I'm glad it was brought into the modern times!
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written by Smartyr , November 08, 2008
Even for someone who is going to pull the pseudointellectual speech out before playing the game, you were brave, and a bit too bold. Game-play evolution is and will always be an INTEGRAL part of game development. I ran through the game fairly quickly, and was completely blown away by the performance, story, humor, and classic feel all the way through. You missed a key step in the scientific method; you didn't test your hypothesis.
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written by Puff , November 08, 2008
I stand behind my comments. As I said before:

Yea, it's a good game as games go. But its no Fallout Sequel
1. You are killing ghouls and super mutants as though they were monsters not metaphors in a post apocalyptic world where appearances are not the whole picture of humanity.
2. No, the comedy is not all there. Sure there's a few sparks of humor and splattering body parts all over is still there for a good laugh, but where is the endless hours of hilarious NPCs and "random encounters." The best laugh I got was finding the bug of the headless man. But that was a Bethesda bug, not an intended part of the game.

Lastly, I'd just like to reiterate that I have no problem with video game progression (evolution). Many games have done it great, but I know for a fact that Bethesda couldn't evolve a tadpole into a frog, much less make a sequel to an amazing series. The Elder Scrolls was a great series, but it doesn't make it right to try and splice the ES DNA with that of Fallout. It's a shame because Black Isles would have done a much better job. (period)

I'll live with Fallout 3 and enjoy it, but at the end of my days have fonder memories of Half-Life 2 than Bethesda's butchering of FO3.
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written by DD4 , November 10, 2008
Isn't it logical for Bethesda to use a game engine they are familiar with to make Fallout 3 instead of creating something completely new and run the risk of being over budget and ending up with a more rushed and hurried end product?
Can't blame Bethesda for doing that really, its not like they will try make Fallout 3 based on something they ain't good at.

Would Black Isle make a better sequel? Yeah a more tie-in sequel to the first two fallouts for sure but I doubt it will have the same impact as the current Beth version of fallout 3, which you have to say is made to appeal to a new gen of shooters on consoles.

Which is a pity really.
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written by Ken , November 17, 2008
I played Fallout and Fallout 2 and I've got to say that I enjoy Fallout 3 far more than either. I understand the comments about the interface changes, but I think the change is for the better. Of course, I enjoyed Oblivion too. For anyone complaining about Fallout 3, I found Fallout 2 to be boring compared to the first one and just an attempt at cashing in on the success of the first one.
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Last Updated ( Friday, 13 June 2008 22:53 )
 
 

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